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My Punctuation Fail Shame Hell

5/8/2013

8 Comments

 
I thought I was pretty good at grammar and punctuation. I am one of those people who judges others on their poor punctuation and grammar on social media. Sorry, but that’s just me. Hands up, my name is Liam Livings, and I’m judgemental about spelling and grammar.

I love that picture which regularly does the rounds on social media explaining the difference between often confused words:
  • I know the difference between their, there, and they’re.
  • I know when it’s a grocer’s apostrophe (one grocer).
  • I know that it’s = it is, or it was, and that its denotes possession. (Get me with my ‘denotes’ today)
  • The thing about grammar is it’s the difference between knowing you’re sh*t and knowing your sh*t.
  • And I know that it’s ok to start a sentence with and.
  • I could go on, but I don’t want to come across as smug.

I also thought I had punctuation for direct speech pretty much sewn up too. However, evidently, not.

I sent a short story to some very helpful beta readers last week, and as well as the ‘what does that mean?’ and ‘who’s talking here’ comments I received, I also learned there was a dark hole of ignorance in my punctuation knowledge which I had no idea was even there. You know what they say: you don’t know what you don’t know. Well, I didn’t even know this was a thing to get wrong, and it turns out I was getting it wrong, left, right AND centre.

This is what one of my beta reader sent me:

Commas and speech - only use when the speech is preceded/followed by a dialogue tag - an action doesn't count.

Let’s just reflect on that a moment, because, trust me, I had to re-read it a few times, to work out what the thing was I was actually getting wrong.

There’s a different rule for punctuation of dialogue tags (he said, he asked, he shouted etc) next to the dialogue itself, from the rule when it’s an action (she brushed her hair, she punched him in the face, she walked into the room) next to the dialogue.

REALLY? Is that a thing?

It’s not only a thing, it’s a thing I’ve been getting wrong, all this time?

I spoke to a friend who works in PR, and he said he always uses a colon before speech, in everything he writes. Like this - The head of commercial relations said: ‘We are proud of this new product, and welcome taking it forward into the next century.’

Now, as far as I know, that’s pretty wrong too. Or is it?

Back to my beta readers.

You use commas instead of full stops a lot in speech:

He glared. "I don't like that" NOT He glared, "I don't like that." Alternatively you could use Glaring, he said, "I don't like that."


It's the same following speech. "I don't like that." He glared at her. Not "I don't like that," he glared at her. Or you could use "I don't like that," he said, glaring.

Also, I tend to join sentences together using commas, but no conjunction. I’m particularly guilty of this in my direct speech (because that’s how us Brits talk) but apparently in the USA it’s got to be broken into shorter sentences. This, I feel, is something for another post.

Have you ever had any grammar/punctuation fails, which you didn’t even know could be a fail? I’d love to hear from you.

‘So long, and thanks for all the comments.’ Liam waved, then left the room.

Liam xx

8 Comments
Blaine D Arden link
4/8/2013 05:51:23 pm

about the colon:
In Dutch we do start dialogue like that if the 'he said' is put in front of the the speech:

So, <i>The head of commercial relations said: ‘We are proud of this new product, and welcome taking it forward into the next century.’</i> would be correct in Dutch, though... I've lost track of whether we use " " or ' ' to indicate dialogue (since I don't actually write in Dutch lol

Reply
Liam Livings
4/8/2013 06:58:24 pm

Thanks Blaine, I know in Spanish they use an upside down ? at the start of a question sentence, to warn you it's a question, so it seems there are quite a few different variations by country!
Liam

Reply
Shelagh link
5/8/2013 12:17:14 am

When I started writing fanfic a few years ago, I'd done no creative writing of any description since I'd left school almost 30 years before, armed with an English 'O' level I passed by accident. I'd always read voraciously though, and thought I had a good grasps of the basics. I don't even recall doing grammar at school, apart from a couple of lessons in primary school (but that could be my age or the fact that I was a hard core truant between 14 and 16).

I remember looking up how to dialogue and grasping that punctuation came within the speech marks and that was my limit. I was shocked when I acquired a beta reader and started getting stuff back with yellow highlight all over it. I used commas where I shouldn't and didn't use them where I should. Semi-colons were a complete mystery to me! My beta reader was brilliant and shit hot on punctuation - I always got an explanation for why my mistakes were wrong - although I didn't understand most of the technical terms (nouns, verbs and adjectives are about my limit). Over 2 years I developed a pretty good sense of where the commas should go, even though I still couldn't give you a technical explanation of why. For me, it's a bit like dealing with programming languages, some require a semi-colon at the end of each statement; I don't really care why it does, I just need to remember that it does.

My epic fail was discovering that I was a terrible head-hopper. I don't know why my beta reader had never mentioned it - I think she thought I had enough on my plate with the comma wrangling. I didn't even know what it was until someone else volunteered to be a beta reader for a short I'd written. When she mentioned it, I had to go and look up what it was. I was mortified to realise that I did it constantly, occasionally several times within a single paragraph. Now, I look back at the stuff I wrote before I found out about head-hopping and it really makes me cringe.

Reply
Liam Livings
7/8/2013 11:07:06 pm

Hi Shelagh, it's nice to see I'm not alone! Head hopping, yes, I've heard of that, although none of my betas have mentioned it, although as you said, that's no guarantee of me not being guilty of it.

Reply
Elin
5/8/2013 07:04:32 am

Sometimes, I look at my stuff after a few months and cringe at all the extended sentences, and and and and that that that that, detachable whizzing body parts. Oh and grammar - what's that all about? I think I must have had the same kind of teachers as Shelagh.

Reply
Liam Livings
7/8/2013 11:09:29 pm

Hi Elin, I definitely have a tendency to extend sentences, many sub clauses, commas, even some ; thrown in too!
I'm going to end up sounding like a maiden aunt, but the thing about grammar is it's not taught at schools any longer. (Or English grammar wasn't when I did it). Mine is all from what grammar I learned from French or Latin lessons - so I can tell you about a genative, dative, or ablative (not that it's much use in English...)

Reply
Becky Black link
6/8/2013 04:55:39 am

I'm getting better - but I'm still rubbish with commas. (Though I think Americans just like more commas than us!) I wasn't really taught any of this at school, so I'm easily baffled by it!

Reply
Liam Livings
7/8/2013 11:10:42 pm

Hi Becky, glad it's not just me! I thought Americans perferred shorter sentences, rather than long ones, separated by commas. But maybe I'm wrong.
I'm often baffled too ;-)

Reply



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    Gay romance & gay fiction author

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